USS King (DLG-10/DDG-41) Discussion Forum

Veterans Issues and Answers, Agent Orange, etc. => Veterans Affairs => Topic started by: kayo1952 on December 05, 2010, 11:42:28 AM

Title: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on December 05, 2010, 11:42:28 AM
can anyone who was on the King from 1971 to 1973 remember when the ship was docked in Da Nang harbor  and made a supply run ?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 05, 2010, 20:06:50 PM
Check with BLUE WATER NAVY site. They thought it might be since it was in Tonkin Bay. It also was listed on ships in the Congress release of 700 plus ships in the Da Nang report. My husband Ronald D. Bell was stationed on the USS KING from 9/73-6/74, I believe. He has End Stage Renal Failure, Diabetes, Dialysis, 2 Strokes, Hip Replacement,Wheelchair and PTSD ,which are fine government says we have to prove Agent Orange and PTSD. Good Luck if we fine anymore information I'll contact you.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on December 06, 2010, 12:42:30 PM
Check with BLUE WATER NAVY site. They thought it might be since it was in Tonkin Bay. It also was listed on ships in the Congress release of 700 plus ships in the Da Nang report. My husband Ronald D. Bell was stationed on the USS KING from 9/73-6/74, I believe. He has End Stage Renal Failure, Diabetes, Dialysis, 2 Strokes, Hip Replacement,Wheelchair and PTSD ,which are fine government says we have to prove Agent Orange and PTSD. Good Luck if we fine anymore information I'll contact you.

Thanks for the information I have already checked   the Blue Water Navy site.
 My husband has heart Ischemic heart disease and like you we have to prove Agent Orange Good Luck to you too and it we fine anymore information I will contact you as well
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 07, 2010, 19:40:40 PM
 I'm sorry I forgot to mention my husband also has Ischemic heart Disease and we have filed for disability. He's at 80% now and we're praying for 100%. He had (I believe 4 stints put in). We filed a claim I think in Sept. By the way my name is Cheryl. Even when you have the diseases to get military connected IT EXTEMRELY HARD to get connected since it's the Navy is involved. Ron was an SH-2 , he worked in the storewares.I have been in contact with John Paul Rossieand this is his reply on how to DA Nang Report  Da Nang Harbor flows into the Guld of Tonkin. Our planned argument for acounting for contaminants flowing through Da Nang Harbor and then out to sea has not been put together yet. So far, there's nothing that can make a ship eligible for exposure to herbicides if it is offshore. We are working on it. The best use of the Da Nang Harbor Report is obviously if/when you entered the Harbor. Since the KING was a DD/DDG, it is highly probable that sometime during its cruise it entered the Harbor. Check in your Cruise Book for 72-73. Also, look on the Internet for a Ship's Association, that would have such records. If you are having problems, then it is a good guess that maybe another of your shipmates are too. The Ship's Association may know about that, and may already have some information developed for filing claims.
       Good luck with this, Ron. The more heads you can get together, the higher the probability that you can come up with something useful.

    -John Rossie
    BlueWaterNavy.org

We have sent in so much information I'm tired of it, but we ( should use I since I do it all).
Good Luck  Cheryl
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on December 08, 2010, 09:55:20 AM
Hello Cheryl my name is Marie thanks again for the information you sent....My husband applied for disability a few weeks ago and like you I have been doing all the searching for any information there is I did find the time line of the ship so my husband can give it to his service officer so she can check the national archives. Good luck to you
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 20, 2010, 21:59:05 PM
I was aboard during that time and the King Dlg-10 anchored in DaNang harbor on August 8, 1970 for the last time. That Cruise I have the deck log for this west-pac.

Fred Wright
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 21, 2010, 19:29:32 PM
Hi, and thanks for the information about Da Nang in 1970. Can I ask where ,how and when did you receive this information?  I'm looking for the year of 9/1973- 9/1974. Do you have any suggestions and how and where too to look.
Thank  You for any help you can give me.
Ronad D. Bell
grampron@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 22, 2010, 05:38:11 AM
Ronald,

The King was not deployed from 9/1973 to 9/1974. She received her prototype CIWS system (installed on the fantail) on 12 August 1973 and spent the next several months testing it out.

She then proceeded to New Orleans, LA where she was decommissioned on 30 April 1974 for AAW modernization.

A good place to look for general timeline information is here:

http://www.uss-king.com/TimeLine.shtml

This information was taken directly from the official ship history documents (submitted by the Commanding Officer annually) which were obtained from the Naval Historical Center.

Some scattered information was taken directly from the ships logs obtained from the National Archives. I was unable to obtain all of the deck logs from the National Archives as the cost is extremely high for all pages (numbering in the thousands). Anyone located near the National Archives facility in College Park, MD can go in and view the logs at no charge. Photocopying services are available on site.

Mark Donovan
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 22, 2010, 06:13:58 AM
Mark D, Thank you so much the information Ron has had several strokes and can't remember the exact dates when he was aboard the King, it was the Westpac cruise from 1972-1973. I guess it would help to have the right when seeking information. Do you have anymore information you can impart to me. I'm his wife and we're trying to get Agent Orange connected as he has several disease listed to be connected.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 22, 2010, 07:35:03 AM
Most of the time, stops in Vietnam were for resupply or officer briefings. Crates and boxes brought aboard for resupply could have easily been contaminated with Agent Orange as they were stored on base. It is a known fact that most, if not all, US facilities in Vietnam used Agent Orange as a defoliant on the base perimeters to eliminate hiding places for NVA and VC.

The time line is the best place to start narrowing down dates:

02 October 1972 - Left for WESTPAC

09 October - 11 October 1972 - Pearl Harbor, HI

26 October - 29 October 1972 - Subic Bay, PI

It is possible (and likely) that she stopped in Da Nang between 29 October and 05 November 1972.

05 November - 28 November 1972 - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

29 November - 09 December 1972 - Subic Bay, PI

The 09 December to 11 December window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

12 December 1972 - 15 January 1973 - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

17 January - 28 January - Sasebo, Japan

30 January - 03 February - Yokosuka, Japan

The 03 February to 09 February window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

09 February - 12 February - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 12 February to 14 February window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

14 February - 20 February - Subic Bay, PI

23 February - 27 February - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 27 February to 03 March window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

03 March - 04 March - Subic Bay, PI

06 March - 09 March - Kaosiung, Taiwan

10 March - 17 March - Hong Kong, BCC

The 17 March to 19 March window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

19 March - 31 March - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 31 March to 05 April window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

05 April - 06 April - Yokosuka, Japan

11 April - Midway Island

14 April - Pearl Harbor, HI

21 April - Return to San Diego

I hope that helps!

Mark D.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on December 22, 2010, 07:49:41 AM
thanks so much for the information it will be a big help and more ideas will be greatly
appreciated.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 22, 2010, 18:39:44 PM

Thank you so much for all the information and so quickly answered. Now if I may bend your ear some more, is there any more information out there that you that might satisfy the VA request for proof of being in Da Nang Harbor and coming into contact with Agent Orange? Ron did the stores onboard. Can it be proven that Agent Orange was sprayed on the crates and boxes and were contaminated. We can't Thank you enough for going out of your way to help a fellow VET. You have done more for us than our DAV rep.






Most of the time, stops in Vietnam were for resupply or officer briefings. Crates and boxes brought aboard for resupply could have easily been contaminated with Agent Orange as they were stored on base. It is a known fact that most, if not all, US facilities in Vietnam used Agent Orange as a defoliant on the base perimeters to eliminate hiding places for NVA and VC.

The time line is the best place to start narrowing down dates:

02 October 1972 - Left for WESTPAC

09 October - 11 October 1972 - Pearl Harbor, HI

26 October - 29 October 1972 - Subic Bay, PI

It is possible (and likely) that she stopped in Da Nang between 29 October and 05 November 1972.

05 November - 28 November 1972 - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

29 November - 09 December 1972 - Subic Bay, PI

The 09 December to 11 December window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

12 December 1972 - 15 January 1973 - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

17 January - 28 January - Sasebo, Japan

30 January - 03 February - Yokosuka, Japan

The 03 February to 09 February window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

09 February - 12 February - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 12 February to 14 February window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

14 February - 20 February - Subic Bay, PI

23 February - 27 February - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 27 February to 03 March window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

03 March - 04 March - Subic Bay, PI

06 March - 09 March - Kaosiung, Taiwan

10 March - 17 March - Hong Kong, BCC

The 17 March to 19 March window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

19 March - 31 March - YANKEE Station, Gulf of Tonkin

The 31 March to 05 April window is another possibility for a Da Nang stop.

05 April - 06 April - Yokosuka, Japan

11 April - Midway Island

14 April - Pearl Harbor, HI

21 April - Return to San Diego

I hope that helps!

Mark D.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 22, 2010, 19:17:23 PM
I'm glad to help in any way I can!

Unfortunately, proving contact with Agent Orange is virtually impossible. That's why it is assumed that any serviceman who stepped foot in Vietnam was exposed.

At one point, blue water sailors fell under the same rules, but this ruling was suspended and sailors have to prove they went ashore.

I have heard of instances of "circumstantial exposure". What I mean by that is that by proving a sailor was aboard a ship that moored in a Vietnamese port, contact was possible (and therefore assumed probable) just like those stationed ashore. I believe those were case-by-case, so no real precedence has been set.

It is my opinion (and that of many others) that since stores and munitions were often temporarily staged ashore in Vietnam, that even sailors who never moored in Vietnam but received repleneshment at sea were exposed to varying levels of Agent Orange.

I believe that if it can be shown that the King was moored or anchored in Vietnam and that she received supplies, then the exposure link can be made with Ron in the execution of his normal duties.

The deck logs for 1972 and 1973 are at the National Archives in College Park, MD. Here is the specific information:

RG 24 USN Deck Log
USS King DLG 10/DDG 41
1972 190/46/21/2
Estimated pages - 500
Estimated reproduction costs - $375 ($0.75 per page)

RG 24 USN Deck Log
USS King DLG 10/DDG 41
1973 190/46/21/3
Estimated pages - 500
Estimated reproduction costs - $375 ($0.75 per page)

Requests for quotation/ordering should be made to:

National Archives and Records Administration
Archives II Reference Section
Textual Archives Services Division
8601 Adelphi Rd.
College Park, MD 20740-6001

More contact information can be found here:

http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/contact.html

Part 2 would to be determining if supplies were brought aboard. This might be documented in the deck logs in which case you should have the documentation you need. If not, it may be necessary to contact the Department of the Navy to find supply transfer documents.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 22, 2010, 20:26:27 PM
You have been such a BLESSING to us with all the information you've relayed to us. We have been on a merry-go-round with the VA for over 8 years and got nothing accomplished. You have given me a glimmer of hope again. Thank you for all your time, energy and everything you spent helping us.
Sincerely,
Ron and Cheryl
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 23, 2010, 07:40:00 AM
You're welcome - I hope this information can help.

Please keep me posted on your progress.

Mark D.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 23, 2010, 09:47:13 AM
You don't know what a SUPER- BIG help you ARE.  I have so much more information now. May you RECEIVE a SPECIAL BLESSING for all your KINDNESS. I will keep you posted. THANK YOU AGAIN and the MERRIEST of CHRISTMAS and NEW YEAR.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 23, 2010, 10:05:17 AM
Mark, Please don't think I'm dumb, but why did you send me to http:// archives.gov/de-mento/contact.html. I went there last night and the the only thing I found was about stopping wars.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 23, 2010, 10:10:44 AM
Mark, Please don't think I'm dumb, but why did you send me to http:// archives.gov/de-mento/contact.html. I went there last night and the the only thing I found was about stopping wars.

The link should have been for contact information at the DC area National Archives. Here's the link again:

http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/contact.html
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 23, 2010, 10:20:59 AM
Now I know what I did wrong of course, and I do look dumb but there were several different sites and of course I looked at the wrong one. Thanks for dealing with my computer skills( how sadly lacking they are). Now i redid it know the answer to my own question.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 24, 2010, 09:59:19 AM
Mark, Hi, here I go again I was reading the history for the USS King 1972 and now I have several questions. First it mention CAR, I requestioned the Ribbon back in June/July how long does it normally take to get it? Was it possible to have sprayed Agent Orange on ammunication the VC armed on the ship with? Why isn't there any printed narragatives for 1973?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 24, 2010, 10:43:37 AM
Sorry I meant fired at instead of armed
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 24, 2010, 11:01:11 AM
Mark, Hi, here I go again I was reading the history for the USS King 1972 and now I have several questions. First it mention CAR, I requestioned the Ribbon back in June/July how long does it normally take to get it?

Those guys are notoriously slow. I'm not surprised at all, but you should consider an inquiry or request resubmission if you don't hear anything by the end of January.

Was it possible to have sprayed Agent Orange on ammunication the VC armed on the ship with?

That all depends on where the ammunition came from. If it went from the US to the Philippines to a resupply ship then to the King, then no, it would not have been sprayed with AO.

If it was stored in Vietnam before going to the resupply ship (then on to the King), then yes, it's possible that it got sprayed.

With all the horror stories that surround Agent Orange, it was not a chemical warfare agent. It was a highly concentrated variant of DDT, a pesticide. The sole purpose was to kill vegetation. By killing off the vegetation, this deprived the enemy of valuable hiding areas. As a result, the military command in Vietnam felt that all military installations should have a clear security perimeter around them. They sprayed AO around the bases on a regular basis to keep it clear. Any number of variables (wind, overspray, etc.) caused AO to cover buildings and materials inside the base perimeter, including supplies waiting to be transfered to bases and ships.

Why isn't there any printed narragatives for 1973?

I have all of the narratives in paper form here. I used them to populate the timeline page I mentioned in other posts. I have not had the chance to enter them online yet.

I looked at the 1972/73 narratives and found no specific mention of mooring/anchoring in Vietnam, but narratives are often vague. Here is a link to the command histories I have entered:

http://uss-king.com/KingWiki/doku.php?id=comhist

This is a new section of the website that is under construction and has not gone public yet, so please excuse any broken links you might find.

Mark D.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 24, 2010, 11:50:27 AM
You referred me to contact the US NAVY over supplies is there a special point of contact are do I just contact the Navy in general?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 24, 2010, 12:11:59 PM
You referred me to contact the US NAVY over supplies is there a special point of contact are do I just contact the Navy in general?

It would probably have to be a general Freedom of Information Act request:

http://foia.navy.mil/index.asp
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 24, 2010, 13:11:59 PM
Thanks again I sent in the request and they wanted a fee of $250 but you can apply for a fee waiver so I did.  I thought of drinking water being contaminated, is that possible?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 24, 2010, 13:46:37 PM
I thought of drinking water being contaminated, is that possible?

Drinking water was manufactured onboard from seawater with water distillation plants. It is highly unlikely that any AO that may have been in the seawater (which would have been diluted to a harmless level anyway) would have made it through the distillation process.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 24, 2010, 18:43:34 PM
When I applied for specificate dates and told them I was doing agent orange research they waived the fee for me.
Good Luck

Fred Wright
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 24, 2010, 22:18:36 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 25, 2010, 03:54:19 AM
I have heard from so many that have ischemic heart disease and diabetes that I really think there should be a registry. Maybe a trend would show help pinpoint a cause.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 25, 2010, 09:59:17 AM
That sounds good to me I also think all diseases should be documented by these Viet- Nam Vets, if it effects one part of the body sounds logical to me if would effect other parts of the body and as the "DA Nang Report" says who and how defoliants effects individuals is different from one to another. I go one step farther ALL VIET NAM CAses should be settled before NEW Wars are done( are is this political of a statement).
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 26, 2010, 15:55:55 PM
http://bluewaternavy.org/directexposure.htm how to use the Da Nang Harbor report. Good reading.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 26, 2010, 17:47:19 PM
I read the whole report, do you have any knowledge on how it's received by decision committee.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 26, 2010, 20:02:52 PM
I received a reply notice from the VA which stated "if you served or visited the country of Viet Nam or its inland waterways". Now I don't have a logistical mind set, but my common sense tells if I move to fire on the VC and receive fire back shouldn't I be inland water, since I received a VSM and Bronze star. If not then how do I find out who ordered the move and how far did the ammunition go when fired. Why is it so much more difficult to prove the spraying of the defoliants? Fred W. and Mark D. THANK YOU for responding to all my questions and extension of my knowledge.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 27, 2010, 05:33:34 AM
I received a reply notice from the VA which stated "if you served or visited the country of Viet Nam or its inland waterways". Now I don't have a logistical mind set, but my common sense tells if I move to fire on the VC and receive fire back shouldn't I be inland water, since I received a VSM and Bronze star. If not then how do I find out who ordered the move and how far did the ammunition go when fired. Why is it so much more difficult to prove the spraying of the defoliants? Fred W. and Mark D. THANK YOU for responding to all my questions and extension of my knowledge.

The range of the 5" gun on the King had a range of roughly 13 nautical miles, so it was not necessary to be operating on inland waterways in order to shell the enemy (and vice versa).

To my knowledge, the King never operated on inland waterways, though many other destroyers did. The Bluewater Navy site has more information on this:

http://www.bluewaternavy.org/shiplist2%20announcement.htm

By the way, after reading the documents that Fred W. pointed out, I stand corrected - it appears that dioxin would have survived the desalinization process, so it could have been introduced into the ship's drinking water.

Mark D.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 27, 2010, 06:35:35 AM
I have heard the water decontamination story both ways, it's hard to know the truth and which source you are going to believe, in the end I ques it's really what the decision believes. I have seen picks of fishing villages completely devastated from defoliants but I still don't know the truth.Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 27, 2010, 10:13:24 AM
Ron
The one thing that seems to count is what the VA accepts.
Fred
I have heard the water decontamination story both ways, it's hard to know the truth and which source you are going to believe, in the end I ques it's really what the decision believes. I have seen picks of fishing villages completely devastated from defoliants but I still don't know the truth.Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 27, 2010, 18:40:25 PM
How do I find out what the VA accepts?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 27, 2010, 21:53:02 PM
I am guessig but it would seem to me that a buddy statement and anything to support would get it along way. We now have the Haas decision to help. http://www4.va.gov/vetapp09/files5/0941678.txt
Fred
How do I find out what the VA accepts?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on December 27, 2010, 21:58:32 PM
I across this:
The following is an excerpt from Compensation and Pension Service Bulletin, January 2010
Compensation and Pension (C&P) Service has initiated a program to collect data on Vietnam naval operations for the purpose of providing regional offices with information to assist with development in Haas related disability claims based on herbicide exposure from Navy Veterans. To date, we have received verification from various sources showing that a number of offshore ?blue water? naval vessels conducted operations on the inland "brown water" rivers and delta areas of Vietnam. We have also identified certain vessel types that operated primarily or exclusively on the inland waterways. The ships and dates of inland waterway service are listed below. If a Veteran?s service aboard one of these ships can be confirmed through military records during the time frames specified, then exposure to herbicide agents can be presumed without further development.You will notice in this Bulletin the instance of a destroyer cited as presumptive exposure because it "Operated on coastal inlet north of Da Nang, June 2-5, 1966, protecting Marines holding a bridge."

So, a coastal inlet is an inland waterway, but a harbor is not?

Again, the entire list of ships published by VA, that was recently sent to Senator Akaka, is filled with instances of bays, inlets and harbors categorized as Inland Waterways.

 :) This is the same area the King was operating in when it did most of the Naval support Gun fire.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 28, 2010, 07:38:39 AM
Thanks, but I sent this to the VA already and they still need more proof and I sent 38 C.F.R. and Ron has all but 2 diseases listed. Nobody has returned any help that was stationed on the ship with him.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 28, 2010, 07:45:30 AM
Fred Wmaybe I should go into more detail I sent the entire list article to the VA Board with the USS King highlighted and about 2005 I sent 38 C.F.R. with the passages and diseases listed on Presumption Exposure.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 28, 2010, 14:17:21 PM
It's funny you mention about inlet and harbors because I looked up gulf, bay, harbor and according to Wester dictionary they are pretty much the same thing water surrounded by land. I don't mean to sound like a whine baby but there has to be some reason he has these diseases associated with Agent Orange.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on December 28, 2010, 15:07:58 PM
As a member of the Board of Directors, I have full access to the database which includes contact information (including CAPT Tarbuck, the CO on that cruise). Since that information is largely confidential, I can't really post it or forward it to you.

I can try to contact them directly on your behalf to see if I can get any more information.

I still believe that the deck logs would be the best starting point as they will include latitude and longitude navigational data. This will tell you precisely where the ship went. That may seem like a tall order, but I have calculated tracks before (http://www.uss-king.com/ptboat1966.shtml), so I can assist with that one.

Mark D.

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 28, 2010, 21:51:31 PM
Thank you that will be greatly appreciaed.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on December 30, 2010, 17:33:29 PM
A change of pace what's the difference between mid watch and shipmate?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 03, 2011, 12:33:52 PM
Another question I have is there any KEYS WORDS I should include when I writing these places?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 03, 2011, 14:16:41 PM
I have written everyone that it was suggested I do, now what just wait for the information or is there anything else I should do? Once again WE appreciate and thanks to everyone who took out their precious time to help us.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 03, 2011, 14:58:46 PM
Agent Orange cleanup to start at former US base in Vietnam
Thu Dec 30, 10:25 am ET
 
.HANOI (AFP) ? Vietnam and the United States aim to start cleaning up contamination from Agent Orange at a former wartime US base in the middle of next year, the US embassy said Thursday.

A memorandum signed between the two sides "confirms the mutual desire of both governments to cooperate in hopes that cleanup can begin in July 2011 and be completed in October 2013," the statement said.

The agreement covers contamination at the Danang airport in central Vietnam.

During the Vietnam War US aircraft flying from bases including Danang sprayed Agent Orange and other herbicides to strip trees of foliage, in a bid to deprive communist forces of cover and food.

The herbicides contained potentially cancer-causing dioxin.

In preparation for the cleanup, the US awarded a contract late last year for building a secure landfill site to hold contaminated soil and sediment at the airport, where the US is focusing its help at Vietnam's request.

US ambassador Michael Michalak told the signing ceremony on Thursday that Washington has set aside almost 17 million dollars this year for the Danang dioxin cleanup, which will cost a total of 34 million dollars.

"The two governments are now jointly preparing for the design, procurement and implementation of the project," he said.

Experts have identified two other former US air bases as "hot spots" of dioxin contamination.

The UN this year announced a five-million-dollar project to reduce contamination at the Bien Hoa airport hot spot near Ho Chi Minh City.

A Vietnamese doctor testified before the US Congress this year that more than three million Vietnamese have suffered the effects of wartime herbicides.

Vietnam and the US normalised relations 15 years ago.

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on January 04, 2011, 09:44:45 AM
I have made a Washington National Records Center, request for the following dates.
Gulf of Tonkin    11/1/71   to   1/3/72
Gulf of Tonkin    11/5/72   to   11/28/72
Gulf of Tonkin    12/11/72   to   1/15/73
Gulf of Tonkin    2/9/73   to   2/12/73
Gulf of Tonkin    2/23/73   to   2/27/73
Gulf of Tonkin    3/19/73   to   3/31/73
I will share any info I get.
 :) Fred
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 04, 2011, 14:16:24 PM
Thanks,  Fred W. now all we need is the proof the USS King was in Da Nang Harbor? Because it's a 3 sided harbor , inlet, bay, gulf. Ron just found out that his AO case has been reopened.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 05, 2011, 20:57:53 PM
The Da Nang Report about the airport cleanup was from Yahoo News via computer on 01/04/11 and the address for the that I gave for the https://www.rmda.army.mil/organization/jsrrc.shtml/ is for Joint Services Records Research Center( Records Management and Declassification Agency. If it comes up security certificate just push on threw. Best of Luck to those who are fighting to AO,  PTSD service connected.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 06, 2011, 20:32:01 PM
 This is for Mark D. and Fred W.



From inchop on 24 October 1972 until the commencement of 30 day's duty as MIDSAR picket on 14 December 1972, KING demonstrated her versatility assuming eight changes in task unit assignment ranging from CTU 77.0.4 as MIDSAR Picket to CTU 75.6.1 for Naval Gunfire Support in MR II.


After arrival Subic Bay, an initial WESTPAC inport period of only 2 days provided the bare minimum of time for installation of both WESTPAC pool and special project equipments. On 29 October KING departed Subic for the Gulf of Tonkin to assume duties as AAW escort and logistics support ship for USS INFLICT (MSO-456) serving as CTU 77.0.5 for the operations. KING escorted INFLICT on an Environmental Survey of the coastal waters of North Vietnam for three days during which INFLICT conducted both magnetic observations and bottom samplings at selected points.

Now why in the world would a GLD/10 be needed to help conduct this kind of test and if nothing was in the water why would they risk the lives of sailors to do this test in the first place ?







After reporting for duty withTG75.9 at Pt. Allison on the northern MR I gunline later On 11 December, KING's single 5"54 mount fired 994 rounds in 48 hours including 275 rounds in one 8 hour period. Two ammo VERTREPS were conducted during this hectic gunline tour. On completion of her NGFS assignment on 13 December, KING had fired 1636 rounds of Naval Gunfire Support during the deployment, a total believed to be the highest for DLG-type ships in the Vietnam War. These two gunline periods constituted the first time that KING?s guns have ever been fired in combat. During this time that KING on two separate occasions, came under fire from a coastal defense site and returned over 20 rounds of counter-battery fire for which she was awarded the Combat Action Ribbon.

All this information from USS King History Site. Now the last statement proves that sailors on the USS King December of 1972 earned the Combat Action Ribbon, which makes it easier to get PTSD and to also combat illness, am I right or wrong?










Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 08, 2011, 11:29:44 AM
The USS King escorted the USS Inflict to do environmental bottom samplingsand magnetic observations. I understand (I think)  magnetic for mines but why and how for environmental bottom samplings? How close do you have to be to do this to shoreline? Why  then did they do this? I noticed that Senator AKaka list also has the USS Inflict listed on "brown water list.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on January 08, 2011, 12:01:09 PM
I am going to do a lot of guessing so anyone out there should feel free to correct anything I say here. An MSO is a much smaller ship than the King and as such would normally pull in to dock from time to time in the harbors of Vietnam. By doing so they fall into the class of ships often referred to as "brown water ships".
Magnetic mines were suspended from anchors so they would come close to the hull of any ship passing without being visible. I believe bottom sampling was for the acoustic mines that simply laid on the ocean floor until the noise from a propeller set them off.
You would really have to ask an MSO sailor.
 ;)
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 08, 2011, 18:30:11 PM
Thank you for furthering my education. I'm going to try to get in touch and found out if the dlg followed the MSO into the harbors and if not where would they link up?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on January 08, 2011, 21:05:10 PM
Some of those place would have been to small and shallow for the DLG so they would remain at sea. They would some times go to the Philippines.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 11, 2011, 18:25:58 PM
Fred, this may sound stupid but why would a MSO need an escort? Wouldn't they put mines in the river and harbors to sink the ships? I just don't get this whole idea of war and strarergy it takes to win or lose, but I REALLY APPRECIATE all the time you take to help me get the concept.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on January 11, 2011, 20:02:38 PM
A MSO is a smaller ship designed and built to work with mines. They had very limited self defense capabilities. The radar they had was more for navigation then antiaircraft. they we not equipped to take on a shore battery. Which at one point the King did do. The weapons of the King were far superior because that is  the type of thing the King was designed for.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 13, 2011, 14:16:07 PM
Just found another site for information(tho it didn't help me) The National Association of Destroyer Veterans. ( Tin can Sailors)
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 15, 2011, 16:51:39 PM
In rereading Blue Water Navy Editorials and Opinions by Kelly Franklin it seems to me the problem is territorial sea, continental shelf, offshore, 17 parallel,who belongs to who( Land) and why wasn't it CALLED A WAR? Seems to me that we need to go back and redo some MAJOR CHANGES, to protect our military.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 18, 2011, 19:18:22 PM
How come the liver is recognized in presumption diseases, but not the kidney's. I've been told it's because of filtering body fluids, but in my mind the kidneys would come first. I've written to IMO and they aren't even studying the kidney's and I would like to why?
Does anyone know how long it takes ARC to actually send mail ?  I received an email that they were sending the information I asked for.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on January 18, 2011, 22:54:05 PM
They told me that it takes about ten business days. Then you have to add the weekend and federal holidays plus travel time. For me I am guessing about three weeks.
How come the liver is recognized in presumption diseases, but not the kidney's. I've been told it's because of filtering body fluids, but in my mind the kidneys would come first. I've written to IMO and they aren't even studying the kidney's and I would like to why?
Does anyone know how long it takes ARC to actually send mail ?  I received an email that they were sending the information I asked for.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 25, 2011, 15:50:58 PM
FRED W and Mark D: Got some information from NARA on deck logs of USS King (dlg10) and USS Inflict (MSO 456). There was quite A bit of longitude and attitude, but of course I don't anything about that. I did find it interesting that the King did supply fuel for the USS Inflict and ammo for the USS Nitro. Can anyone please explain what "the plant is cross connected" means when the boilers were being talked about? I'm sure I'll have more questions when I re read the information but the reply also stated if I needed more information I can contact JSSRC at Telegraph Road, Kingman Building Room 2C08, Alexandria, Va. 22315. They also conduct research to claims reguarding AO,PTSD and other Veteran Service ( including medical conditions).
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on January 25, 2011, 16:13:32 PM
Cross connecting the plant meant that #1 Fire Room (boilers) could supply steam to #1 and #2 Engine rooms instead of #1 Fire Room to #1 Engine Room only. Cross connection gave options to keep both engines running in the event of a fault (or required maintenance) in one of the Boiler Rooms that might prevent those boilers from working.

Each Boiler Room had 2 boilers (1A and 1B boilers and 2A and 2B boilers). These provided steam to the steam turbine engines in #1 Engine Room (starboard propeller shaft) and #2 Engine Room (port propeller shaft). It was not required to have all 4 boilers running at the same time. In fact (due to cross connecting) a single boiler could run both engines, although at a reduced speed. The steam from these boilers also ran the Ship Service Turbine Generators (SSTG) to provide electrical power to the ship.

I can see where the King would have provided fuel to the USS Inflict so that the USS Inflict would not have to venture far from her operating area for fuel. The USS Inflict was a small vessel (only 172' long compared to the King's 512') so she would not have required much fuel.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/02456.htm (http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/02456.htm)

The King would not have supplied ammunition to the USS Nitro, but received ammunition from the Nitro. The USS Nitro's soul purpose was to supply ammunition to combat vessels.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/05/0523.htm (http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/05/0523.htm)

Feel free to shoot any more questions out!

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 25, 2011, 16:39:00 PM
Mark D do you need any of the paperwork on long. and att.? In the paperwork I received it states 00-04 Steaming in company with task unit 77.0.5 composed of USS king and USS Inflict (mso456), operating at sea, off the coast of North Vietnam in accordance with comseventh fleet operational employment schedule. Where would I write to get copies of Comseventh Fleet employment schedule? Would it state exactly where the ships were? Was does it mean abaft of the stbd beam and forward of the starboard quarter? Does it mean keeping a distance 3000 -5000 from  USS Inflict abaft the starboard beam and forward the starboard quarter ? What does swinging ship mean? Turning the ship. Are ships controlled by varying speeds and courses?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on January 25, 2011, 18:23:40 PM
Deciphering that info can be a bit of a mess. This page might give you a better idea:

http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/3_1.php (http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/3_1.php)

As for the distance, that was measured in yards. 2000 yards is almost exactly 1 nautical mile.

Here's a definition of swinging ship:

The process of determining the deviation of the ship's magnetic compass by placing a vessel or an aircraft on various headings and comparing magnetic compass readings with the corresponding but previously determined magnetic directions; this procedure usually follows compass adjustment or compass compensation, and is done to obtain information for making a deviation table; usually called swinging when referred to an aircraft compass. Also known as compass calibration.

As for the fleet operational employment schedule, that would likely be held by the Navy Department, possibly the Naval Historical Center. It wouldn't say where they were, but it would say what they were doing - a mission definition of sorts.

If you can give me the Long and Lat numbers, I can determine where that is. I should also be able to explain how to find it on Google Maps (it's actually pretty easy).
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 27, 2011, 14:24:11 PM
Mark D and Fred W : what are the rules of engagement for during war being in international water vs. Vietnam water? I have been told some are 3 miles and 12 miles? How far does brown water go from inland area to sea water? Why does a ship speed up and then slow down?Isn't that a waste of fuel? I'm still trying to mentally take all the information and have it make sense.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 27, 2011, 14:46:11 PM
Now that I think of it maybe rules of engagement isn't actually what I want to know. It's how far out to sea do you need to be  until it's considered international waters?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 27, 2011, 15:48:27 PM
Found some new information on BLUE WATER NAVY . Some more ships have been added to the Presumption of Exposure (but of course the names AREN'T MENTION) just what qualifies them.
It's under Update section on 1/24/2011.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on January 27, 2011, 16:12:26 PM
Territorial waters are defined as 12 nautical miles from the low water mark ashore, but that wasn't defined by the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Sea until 1982. Prior to that, the territorial waters boundary varied world wide. From the 18th century to the mid 20th century, the US, England, and France defined it as 3 nautical miles (the typical length of a cannon shot). Many nations changed this after WW II, but the 12 mile limit wasn't considered law until 1982.

Brown Water and Blue Water determinations are much more vague - Brown water can extend as much as 100 miles from shore, but there is no clear definition.

Wasting fuel has never really been a huge concern until recent years. speeding up and slowing down is usually a function of needing to be somewhere at a specific time or necessary maneuvering to maintain a specific distance.

Water currents are constantly varying. a ship may be "making turns" for 10 knots (how many revolutions the propellers need to do in waters with no current), but if you're heading into a 5 knot current, your actual speed will only be 5 knots.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 27, 2011, 17:03:19 PM
In the Blue Water Navy why isn't there any mention past 1968, when in 1972 - 1973 of any ships in brown water? They didn't just close it down did they(Danang)? How do I find out about ships in the Philippines and AO presumption exposure?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on January 27, 2011, 18:15:07 PM
Why does the VA always put conditions on exposure to herbsides for instance ships who serve in close coastal waters AND also have smaller ships who had personnel go on shore? What about bigger ships who constantly escorted smaller ships that carried dixon's and other chemicals out of Danang Harbor, they certainly water current!!! To me if any ship was in the harbor the ship would be constantly stirring and shifting water and the then the big ships would make drinking, showering, cooking water out of contaminated water and also pass it on to smaller ships. It's like when people don't cover their nose and sneeze and cough spreading germs. ONE VICIOUS CYCLE THAT KEEPS ON GIVING. SORRY SOUNDING Political
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: brucerobbins on February 01, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
Does anyone remember when the Captain and Exo spotted a barrel with bright orange stripes floating in Tonkin Gulf in the summer of 1965 and decided to practice some small arm target practice? After the barrel was punctured several time an odorous fluid came out of the barrel and they decided it was Napalm an decided to leave the area at flank speed. I believe the contents were actually agent orange (which was unknown to us at the time) and the odor that filled the lower decks of the ship exposed many of us to the chemical, Several aircraft carriers (e.g. The Coral Sea) ferried these mostly leaky barrels from the states. I am trying to find witnesses that remember this incident as I have high BP and have had kidney cancer (the first in my family) and highly suspect this was a direct cause, but the VA will probably deny it anyway because we did not have "boots on the ground" in Nam. Please contact me if you remember this incident at brucerobbins1@aol.com
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 01, 2011, 15:18:39 PM
Sorry, Ron was on aboard from 9/72 till 4/74. We have been fighting with the VA since 1999( I believe) and been denied, contested the denial and not until last month did we found out they have reopened Ron's case. I can't tell you how much we have been doing this on our own without much help except Mark D and Fred W. We look up everything we can find. Ron has FGSG which has led him to End Stage Renal Failure and dialysis, low blood pressure( causing a stroke,blindness,and leaving him in a wheelchair ) ishemic heart disease( 4 stents), diabetes, hip replacement (that went bad), PTSD, fibromgalia, and a couple little things I can't remember. I constantly am asking questions, checking on Agent Orange information, Blue Water Navy( they just updated their list on brown water ships. In the end it comes checking on your own information. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 01, 2011, 20:49:11 PM
Thanks to the NARA I now have proof that USS King was in Da Dang Harbor on 11/21/72 for a mail run at 1214 a utility boat was in the water at 1205 a motor whale boat reported engine trouble.At1244 utility boat back aboard. 1258 motor whale boat back aboard with mail 1302 to clear Da Nang Harbor. It's signed by D.E. Hesser.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 01, 2011, 20:56:30 PM
Paul A.Cogan from NARA "CAN'T THANK YOU" enough for all your help.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 01, 2011, 21:04:36 PM
How close to the shoreline would you have to be if you had to avoid fishing nets?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 02, 2011, 06:18:41 AM
How close to the shoreline would you have to be if you had to avoid fishing nets?

Anywhere from a couple hundred yards to several miles - it's really hard to say.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 02, 2011, 08:59:36 AM
so there were two boats in the harbor that day.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 02, 2011, 13:50:23 PM
No, as far as I know it was just the USS King and the utility and whale boat were  part of the USS King. Then a bunch of long.and lat. are given, then it states"1324 set flight quarters for vert. rep. from USS Flint." Then more long and lat. Now
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 02, 2011, 15:20:29 PM
what are the odds that your Husband and mine were on that same utility boat or whale
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 02, 2011, 16:01:21 PM
Ron has had several strokes and doesn't remember ever being on a utility or whale boat on the USS King, I wish it was as simple as that, but my mind is constantly swimming with ideas and thoughts.
1. Why and where did the Helios come from? Seems to me transferees of personnel, mail, mapping out coastline and VCs and supplies were the main jobs. At one point and time they would have to land on ground and transfer to out to sea ships, thus bringing contaminated soil with for they also had to have the personnel too.
2. Replenishing, refueling  and gunfire support were the main objections of the USS King, so to me they were more of a supply ship.
3. If you're a DLG, big enough to go down the Da Nang Harbor for one trip it doesn't make since to that you wouldn't take more. The USS Mahan DLG/11 is on the "Brown Water List , so why isn't the King?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 02, 2011, 16:03:52 PM
Sorry, I just so excited when I get more information and forget words in sentences.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 02, 2011, 17:02:31 PM
when I said there were two boats in the harbor that day I meant the two small boats that were lunch from the USS king
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 02, 2011, 20:52:29 PM
Glad we're on the same page, but I got some not so-good news from the DVA, which denied Ron's ischemic heart disease. They gave no reason, now we wait for the VA reason, of course we are allowed to appeal it. I have been fighting over nine what makes the VA think I'll give-up.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 03, 2011, 07:32:47 AM
Does anyone else feel violated by what the VA has done to the VIET NAM VETS, first you go to WAR where chemicals are sprayed that can kill you, then if you're lucky enough to make it back the VA wants YOU to prove YOU were in a certain place and time with their documentation before they will even consider giving you money to take care of your medical expenses never mind the life style you might have had if they had done the RIGHT and THING and provided you with what is already in their Possession. Sorry just feeling mad at the VA.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 03, 2011, 13:56:45 PM
don't give up by reading your post you have found a lot of information that you might be able to use.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 03, 2011, 16:59:58 PM
Kayo 1952 Thank you so much I'm very angry with the VA and what they put people through and seeing the constant daily drain it takes on people lives is complete BULL. It just make more stub-born. My daughter mailed your stuff today. Don't know how before it gets to you, but be expecting it. Thank you for your encouragement.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 03, 2011, 19:50:44 PM
 Went to www.hullnumber.com/dlg10 and found this if anyone interested." The guided missile frigate operated off the West Coast until heading back for the Western Pacific 26 May 1966. On this cruise she carried a helicopter for search and rescue missions to save American pilots during strikes against North Vietnam. She arrived Da Nang South Vietnam 27 June. During July she saved five downed aviators including one who was rescued from deep within North Vietnam by the ship's daring helicopter crew. In August the ship was stationed in a positive identification and radar advisory zone (PIRAZ) in the Gulf of Tonkin to help protect American ships from enemy aircraft. Before she was relieved she had checked over 15 000 aircraft. During this duty she also rescued seven pilots whose planes had gone down during strikes against enemy targets. She continued this duty except for brief runs to Hong Kong and Subic Bay until relieved by Long Beach (CGN-9) on 29 November". Now why didn't this already qualify the USS King for "Brown Water"?



Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 04, 2011, 05:40:13 AM
Went to www.hullnumber.com/dlg10 and found this if anyone interested." The guided missile frigate operated off the West Coast until heading back for the Western Pacific 26 May 1966. On this cruise she carried a helicopter for search and rescue missions to save American pilots during strikes against North Vietnam. She arrived Da Nang South Vietnam 27 June. During July she saved five downed aviators including one who was rescued from deep within North Vietnam by the ship's daring helicopter crew. In August the ship was stationed in a positive identification and radar advisory zone (PIRAZ) in the Gulf of Tonkin to help protect American ships from enemy aircraft. Before she was relieved she had checked over 15 000 aircraft. During this duty she also rescued seven pilots whose planes had gone down during strikes against enemy targets. She continued this duty except for brief runs to Hong Kong and Subic Bay until relieved by Long Beach (CGN-9) on 29 November". Now why didn't this already qualify the USS King for "Brown Water"?

The first thing you'll have to remember is that even if King qualified as operating in Brown Water in 1966, that doesn't mean that qualification extends to her entire operational life, but only during that 1966 time frame. For example, the USS Mahan (DLG-11) is only covered from October 24 through 28, 1964.

As far as that entry from HullNumber.com, there is no specific reference to brown water operations. SAR, PIRAZ, and helo rescue operations were carried out while the ship was quite a distance from shore. The UH-2A helicopters used had a range of almost 600 nautical miles which meant the King could have been more than 100 miles from shore and still launched that helo deep into enemy territory.

That being said, I have given copies of the deck logs from that particular cruise to King crew members seeking disability claims. The ships port call to Danang was no more involved than Rons. I never found out if those claims were successful or not.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 04, 2011, 07:05:15 AM
I'm just curious was there any ship ever tested after comic back to home port for AO? I 'm missing a point if you service connected for having a picnic why is it so hard to get connected for mail runs or being in water for 38 minutes?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 04, 2011, 08:57:05 AM
I'm just curious was there any ship ever tested after comic back to home port for AO? I 'm missing a point if you service connected for having a picnic why is it so hard to get connected for mail runs or being in water for 38 minutes?

I couldn't be certain, but I don't believe they realized the extent of the effects at the time. I don't think they really had any reason to test the ships.

We're talking about the same people who didn't realize that slapping goggles on GI's and making them watch nuclear weapons detonate 20 years earlier was a bad idea either.

As to why so hard to make connections? My guess is money. The costs for covering these vets comes from the VA's budget and the accountants are probably too far disconnected from these cases to see the real horrors these vets have to endure.

What we need is publicity because I don't believe the general public knows this problem exists. Most people still believe the assumed exposure applies to all, including Blue Water vets.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 04, 2011, 14:16:29 PM
Has there been any testing done on Tonkin Bay water or DA Bang water? We already know they're spending about  17 millions to help clean-up the DaNang airport area ( which the VA is contaminated) but we all know it is. Why isn't the VA spending 17 million to take care of the damage they did the their military personnel. Why isn't the VA declaring service men and women "Hot Spots" and cleaning up their contaminated LIVES.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 04, 2011, 19:27:37 PM
Just got my reply back from "Joint Services Records Research Center" "Our office is not a record repository. We do not maintain Unit Histories, Official Military Personnel Files(OMPF's , Morning Reports (MRs) Daily Staff Journals(DJs) or Deck Logs. To obtain copies of unit histories write :
         Naval Historical and Heritage Command( NHHC)
         805 Kidder Breese Street  S.E.
         Washington Navy Yard
         Washington D.C. 20374-5060

         DECK LOGS :
         NARA
         NNR2 Room 2600
         8601 Adelphi Road
         College Park, Maryland   20740
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 07, 2011, 19:27:32 PM
I forgot to put case number on DA NANG Harbor proof, so I went to ebenefits.va.gov to have the regional put it on. I don't know how well it will work. I'll let you know
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 09, 2011, 06:52:43 AM
I heard back from ebenefits and they are reassigning my case back to my regional office. I actually think that was pretty quick from all my dumbness.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 09, 2011, 11:34:36 AM
hey grampron do you have a service officer helping with your claim?you should get one  either through the DAV or VFW they can be a big help. :)
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 10, 2011, 19:03:48 PM
We have a DAV rep from Loma Linda VA Hospital and you know the old saying "If you CAN'T say anything Nice DO'T say anything" applies very nicely here. Now we go to the Los Angeles Regional Office, so we shall see how that works out. Thanks for asking. I forgot to signout, so I couldn't email but I did try yesterday.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 10, 2011, 19:50:05 PM
Mark D, Do you think you can explain longitudes and latitudes in away I can understand. I would like to where the USS King was moving and if there any other chance in plotting their course? I have DaNang Harbor at 21o01'N, 105o52'E. Can you tell I didn't pay attention during when degrees, long.and lat. were taught.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 11, 2011, 18:42:40 PM
Don't want to sound ungrateful BUT can anyone explain why the USS Joseph Strauss DDG16 has a complete set of their Vietnam Deck Logs on CD for sale and the USS King doesn't?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 12, 2011, 06:43:18 AM
Don't want to sound ungrateful BUT can anyone explain why the USS Joseph Strauss DDG16 has a complete set of their Vietnam Deck Logs on CD for sale and the USS King doesn't?

It's simply a matter of money. The complete deck logs from 1960 through 1974 will cost $5,295.75. It is estimated that the logs from 1977 to 1991 will cost approximately the same amount, bringing the total to somewhere around $10,000. This does not account for the additional costs to scan the paper copies and the microfilm copies to disk. The USS King Association simply does not have that much money.

Most of the times when you see that another ships association has something like that, it's usually because somebody donated money specifically for that. We do not have that luxury.

If someone wants to donate the money for the specific task of getting all the deck logs, I would be more than happy to make that happen.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 12, 2011, 07:06:29 AM
Mark D, Do you think you can explain longitudes and latitudes in away I can understand. I would like to where the USS King was moving and if there any other chance in plotting their course? I have DaNang Harbor at 21o01'N, 105o52'E. Can you tell I didn't pay attention during when degrees, long.and lat. were taught.

The easiest way to find a point is using online mapping services like this one:

http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 12, 2011, 22:22:02 PM
Mark D, I'm so very SORRY if I offended you, I didn't realize you are the one who publishes all the information about the USS King. I was just thinking maybe the government had grants or scholarships to help with the history of the USS King. Seems like the government has money for everything else. I tried to use the mapsite you gave but of course I don't get it.  Thanks for trying to help.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 13, 2011, 04:04:29 AM
I have written Sec.of VA, Joint Services and Blue Water Navy about the proof NARA sent in reguarding Danang harbor. Can anyone else think where else I should write?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 13, 2011, 06:22:16 AM
Mark D, I'm so very SORRY if I offended you, I didn't realize you are the one who publishes all the information about the USS King. I was just thinking maybe the government had grants or scholarships to help with the history of the USS King. Seems like the government has money for everything else. I tried to use the mapsite you gave but of course I don't get it.  Thanks for trying to help.

That's OK - the truth is that even though our site looks impressive (and it is) there are only about a dozen people who actively work in various Association positions and only a little more than 100 paying members for financial support. We're a small but very dedicated group.

I really wish there were more government help available, but I'm afraid not. The people I deal with are usually very friendly and helpful, but they have to operate within the confines of their system.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 13, 2011, 06:24:30 AM
I have written Sec.of VA, Joint Services and Blue Water Navy about the proof NARA sent in reguarding Danang harbor. Can anyone else think where else I should write?

I would write to everyone you can think of and explain the entire story - Senators, Representatives, newspapers, etc. Blast the story out there and see what happens - there has to be someone out there who's been in your shoes or can at least sympathize enough to help.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 13, 2011, 17:49:11 PM
Now, I'm no politician but I have heard of "pork barrel spending", where our taxpayers money is spent on unproductive ventures. Why can't that money be redirected for disease research? That would benefit everyone not just a few. It's very difficult reliving the past just to correct someone greed instead of doing the "right thing" in the first place.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 13, 2011, 18:56:17 PM
Here's who I written so far:Sec. of VA, Joint Services, Blue Water Navy, Senator Akaka, Sen. Feinstein, Sen. Boxer and Rep McKeon. The funny thing is at Christmas time Costco had if you bought ink you got 2 books of stamps free, little did I know I would use them for this as I had already done Christmas cards and was wondering what I would with the stamps.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 15, 2011, 18:36:02 PM
this is very interesting .
AO AT SUBIC BAY    #2    [url]    [-]

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Posts: 2

10/31/10 14:49:26
   
I ALSO SERVED AT SUBIC FROM 70-72 AND I ALSO LOADED BARRELS OF ORANGE, PURPLE AND WHITE(STRIPED BARRELS)
AND I AM CURRENTLY IN A CLAIM WITH THE VA FOR ORANGE AS WELL AS PTSD.  I HAVE HAD ISSUES SINCE ARRIVING AT HOME.  I WAS MEDICALLY EVACUATED TO OAKKNOLL NAVAL HOSPITAL IN CALIFORNIA FOR EXAMINATION AS I WAS HAVING RECURRENT SYNCOPE AND HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE.  I WORKED AT THE WASTE DUMP FOR A FEW WEEKS AND THEN WAS MOVED TO ANOTHER LOCATION WHERE WE ALSO LOADED 100'S OF BARRELS ONTO TRUCKS.  THESE TRUCKS TRANSPORTED THE BARRELS ACROSS THE BAY TO CUBI POINT WHERE I WITNESSED THEM LOADED ONTO C130'S AND FLOWN OUT AT NIGHT.  I HAVE TESTIFIED TO THAT AT A C AND P EXAM AT THE VA HOSPITAL IN SAGINAW, MICHIGAN.  I WOULD GLADLY SUPPLY ANY INFORMATION TO YOU UPON REPLY.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 15, 2011, 19:21:23 PM
agent orange in the phillipines
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Posts: 1

10/24/10 16:22:36
   
I am a Vietnam era vet who served at subic bay.  We loaded many, many barrels with orange stripes that i later was told it was agent orange.  many of these barrels were leaking and we were told to wipe them off and reload them onto trucks.  i would like to hear from any vet who while in the phillipines was exposed to agent orange.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 15, 2011, 19:24:38 PM
found last two post on another web site
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 17, 2011, 19:31:31 PM
Does anyone know if the waters in Vietnam has ever been tested for AO lately or if Subic Bay water was ever tested?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 19:42:49 PM
Mark D, can you please explain to me when I went to http://uss-king.com/king wikidoku.php?id=comhist and went to the the spot above number it said DaNang Harbor 6/27/66, 10/21/67, 4/14/69, 8/8/70? When I went to to the link before I didn't go down far enough, but I did today.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 18, 2011, 19:54:14 PM
Mark D, can you please explain to me when I went to http://uss-king.com/king wikidoku.php?id=comhist and went to the the spot above number it said DaNang Harbor 6/27/66, 10/21/67, 4/14/69, 8/8/70? When I went to to the link before I didn't go down far enough, but I did today.

I'm not sure what you mean - could you clarify that please?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 20:09:18 PM
Now I can't find it myself, but it's the map that shows the King travels over the world it mentions the fire and different places the ship has been. I'm trying to find it again.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 20:12:35 PM
Sorry I got to excited but the number was 4
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 20:17:24 PM
Sorry I got to excited but the number was 4it brown and bluecircles to indictate where the ship traveled.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 20:41:11 PM
Sorry, but I found it now It's on the web site under history Operational History of the USS King.Thank you.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 18, 2011, 21:08:50 PM
Now if this is true of the USS King was in Da Nang Harbor 6/27/66, 10/21/67, 8/8/70 and with my proof of 11/21/1972 does this constitutes history? It was Judge Marjorie A. Auer who declared Da Nang Harbor as a inland waterway.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 19, 2011, 08:00:04 AM
I see - you're referring to the ships timeline.

Those entries came from the official Command Histories, submitted annually by the Commanding Officer.

I have copies of those if you need them.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 19, 2011, 09:57:31 AM
I would appreciate you sending me copies of those documents as at least to me it establishes a history of sorts.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 19, 2011, 10:20:22 AM
Does anyone know wherein the appeal process I just read Tom Philpott and he stated blue water navy was granted an appeal and then to the Supreme Court?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 19, 2011, 10:43:43 AM
where did you read that about Tom Philpott and the blue water navy
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 19, 2011, 11:38:27 AM
Sailors Victory Reversed in Agent Orange Related Case.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 19, 2011, 11:44:10 AM
Sorry I should have used the hole address bluewaternavy.org/Sailors Philpott.pdf
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 19, 2011, 11:47:52 AM
I went back and typed in Tom Philpott name and there's alot of information under his name.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 20, 2011, 18:25:34 PM
Can anyone tell me how Haiphong Harbor fits in with Agent Orange? I know they recused a down pilot with the help USS Towers. Haiphong Harbor is that like Tonkin Bay? I know I should do more research but I like to hear other points of view.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 20, 2011, 18:37:45 PM
Haiphong is about 350 miles due north of Danang and about 60 miles southeast of Hanoi. I don't know if AO was deployed there, but the King would not have gone anywhere near Haiphong harbor and would have launched the rescue helo several hundred miles out.

Haiphong was well defended and patrolled by high speed motor torpedo boats which could have easily sunk a ship like the King given the opportunity.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 20, 2011, 19:25:05 PM

By Martha Ann Overland / Danang
Saturday, Dec. 19, 2009
Agent Orange Poisons New Generations in Vietnam


This lonely section of the abandoned Danang air base was once crawling with U.S. airmen and machines. It was here where giant orange drums were stored and the herbicides they contained were mixed and loaded onto waiting planes. Whatever sloshed out soaked into the soil and eventually seeped into the water supply. Thirty years later, the rare visitor to the former U.S. air base is provided with rubber boots and protective clothing. Residue from Agent Orange, which was sprayed to deny enemy troops jungle cover, remains so toxic that this patch of land is considered one of the most contaminated pieces of real estate in the country. A recent study indicates that even three decades after the war ended, the cancer-causing dioxins are at levels 300 to 400 times higher than what is deemed to be safe.
After years of meetings, signings and photo ops, the U.S. held another ceremony in Vietnam on Dec. 16 to sign yet another memorandum of understanding as part of the continuing effort to manage Agent Orange's dark legacy. Yet there are grumblings that little ? if anything ? has been done to clean up the most contaminated sites. Since 2007, Congress has allocated a total of $6 million to help address Agent Orange issues in Vietnam. Not only does the amount not begin to scratch the surface of the problem or get rid of the tons of toxic soil around the nation, but there are questions about how the money is being spent. And several parties have noted with growing frustration that the money is primarily going to study the issue and hire consultants rather than implementing measures to prevent new generations from being exposed. (See the ongoing effects of an industrial disaster in India.)
"There is still risk to people living in those areas," says Thomas Boivin, president of the Vancouver-based Hatfield Consultants, an environmental firm that has been identifying and measuring Agent Orange contamination in Vietnam since 1994. The good news is that Hatfield's studies indicate that even though 10% of southern Vietnam was sprayed with dioxins, only a handful of hot spots ? all former U.S. military installations where the herbicide was mixed and stored ? pose a danger to humans. The bad news? "If those were in Canada or in the U.S., they would require immediate cleanup," Boivin says.
Responding to complaints that America is dragging its feet, U.S. ambassador to Vietnam Michael Michalak said the $1.7 million most recently allocated to conduct an environmental assessment of the Danang air base is being done to comply with both U.S. and Vietnamese law and is a necessary step toward cleanup. "We're investigating many promising techniques," Michalak said following the signing ceremony in Hanoi. Careful study is required if the job is to be done right, he added. "We know there is dioxin in the soil," he said. "But what method do we use to remove it? Where do we tell the diggers to dig? It's just another step on the road." (See 90 years of battlefield portraits.)
But critics believe the U.S. is playing a grim waiting game: waiting for people to die in order to avoid potentially costly lawsuits. For a country currently engaged in two wars, accepting comprehensive responsibility for wartime damages could set an expensive precedent. "They know what the problem is and where it is," says Chuck Searcy, country representative of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund. "Why do they now need an environmental impact assessment? They are studying this to death."
Scientists have been raising the alarm about dioxins since the 1960s. After TCDD, the dioxin in Agent Orange, was found to cause cancer and birth defects, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) slapped an emergency ban on the herbicide in 1979. Dow and Monsanto, the chemical's largest manufacturers, eventually shelled out millions in damages to U.S. troops who were exposed to it while it was being used as a wartime defoliant from 1961 to 1971. The U.S. government still spends billions every year on disability payments to those who served in Vietnam ? including their children, many of whom are suffering from dioxin-associated cancers and birth defects. In October, the Department of Veterans Affairs added leukemia, Parkinson's and a rare heart disease to the list of health problems associated with Agent Orange. Yet U.S. official policy maintains that there is no conclusive evidence that the defoliant caused any health problems among the millions of exposed Vietnamese or their children.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948084,00.html#ixzz1EYkRuJCY

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 20, 2011, 19:48:09 PM
Dave Barker from AMVETS has a forum on Military. Com called Dave Barker-Sound Off. He is very helpful and kind. I have written him several times.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: fredw on February 21, 2011, 10:46:55 AM
Mark
Is there a way to plot the position during these Naval gunfiring times?

19-Nov   190130   190233   TROOP CONC   HE   74   150
19-Nov   190753   190820   TROOP CONC   HE   62   170
19-Nov   190829   190840   SUPPLY AREA   HE   8   150
20-Nov   200116   200212   TROOP CONC   HE   28   170
21-Nov   211400   212200   ARTILLERY SITE   HE   40   150
21-Nov   211500   212100   AA SITE   HE   96   200
21-Nov   211515   211540   AA SITE   HE   72   160
22-Nov   220225   220742   VC/NVA POSIT   HE   215   210
11-Dec   111103   111107   ARTILLERY SITE   HEPD   20   160
11-Dec   111200   112115   VC/NVA POSIT   HEPD   108   160
12-Dec   112343   120007   TROOP CONC   HEPD   47   160
12-Dec   120015   120507   TROOP CONC   HEPD   128   180
12-Dec   120607   120658   BUNKER   HEPD   15   250
12-Dec   121200   122102   VC/NVA POSIT   HEPD   207   200
13-Dec   130140   130306   BUNKER   HEPD   30   250
13-Dec   130318   130437   VC/NVA POSIT   HECVT   79   160
13-Dec   131215   131652   TROOP CONC   HEPD   275   170
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 21, 2011, 11:36:37 AM
Mark
Is there a way to plot the position during these Naval gunfiring times?

19-Nov   190130   190233   TROOP CONC   HE   74   150
19-Nov   190753   190820   TROOP CONC   HE   62   170
19-Nov   190829   190840   SUPPLY AREA   HE   8   150
20-Nov   200116   200212   TROOP CONC   HE   28   170
21-Nov   211400   212200   ARTILLERY SITE   HE   40   150
21-Nov   211500   212100   AA SITE   HE   96   200
21-Nov   211515   211540   AA SITE   HE   72   160
22-Nov   220225   220742   VC/NVA POSIT   HE   215   210
11-Dec   111103   111107   ARTILLERY SITE   HEPD   20   160
11-Dec   111200   112115   VC/NVA POSIT   HEPD   108   160
12-Dec   112343   120007   TROOP CONC   HEPD   47   160
12-Dec   120015   120507   TROOP CONC   HEPD   128   180
12-Dec   120607   120658   BUNKER   HEPD   15   250
12-Dec   121200   122102   VC/NVA POSIT   HEPD   207   200
13-Dec   130140   130306   BUNKER   HEPD   30   250
13-Dec   130318   130437   VC/NVA POSIT   HECVT   79   160
13-Dec   131215   131652   TROOP CONC   HEPD   275   170


Interesting, but I don't believe those are Lat/Long numbers. I think those are Naval Gunfire Support grid reference numbers. Grid reference numbers would provide an X/Y point on a map so that the fire control solution could be provided in order to place shells on target.

Even if I had the reference map, I could only identify the target's position, not the ship's position.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 23, 2011, 19:31:30 PM
When Ron got out he was never given a physical. When it says physical on his termination papers RID is used. I know he was to get 10% for knee problems, but it never came about, and they use the Barrington Rule and won't even investigate it.. Now when something like this is done isn't the VA suppose to go on the exit physical, but if there isn't physical then how do they judge and on what evidence? He also has earing lost and several other things that are at 10% each but refuse to use that at his 80% disability.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 24, 2011, 19:43:07 PM
I text the VA.gov. and asked why the USS King dlg/10 has been in Da Nang Harbor 4 times by written accounts on Command History and the new account on Deck Logs 10/21/72 on AO Exposure List. Now I wait the 5 days for a reply.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 25, 2011, 13:36:41 PM
Dear Mr. Bell:

This is in response to your inquiry to the Department of Veterans Affairs of February 24, 2011.

If you can document evidence why your ship should be on the list, respond to this email, with your contact information, and we'll send it to the appropriate office for verification.

Thank you for contacting us. If you have questions or need additional help with the information in our reply, please respond to this message or see our other contact information below.

Sincerely yours,

E. J. Kruse
National IRIS Response Center Manager
csw

How to Contact VA:

On line:
www.va.gov

By phone:
(800) 827-1000
(800) 829-4833 (TDD hearing impaired)

By fax:
(310) 235-6056

By letter:
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Los Angeles VA Regional Office
Federal Building
11000 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90024


This is the letter I got from the VA when I asked why the USS King wasn't on AO Exposure list.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 25, 2011, 17:33:08 PM
Dear Mr. Bell:

This is in response to your inquiry to the Department of Veterans Affairs of February 25, 2011.

We are emailing your comments to the internal VA Compensation and Pension Service Agent Orange Mailbox to start an evaluation of your ship's history in Da Nang.

Thank you for contacting us. If you have questions or need additional help with the information in our reply, please respond to this message or see our other contact information below.

Sincerely yours,

E. J. Kruse
National IRIS Response Center Manager
csw

How to Contact VA:

On line:
www.va.gov

By phone:
(800) 827-1000
(800) 829-4833 (TDD hearing impaired)

By fax:
(310) 235-6056

By letter:
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Los Angeles VA Regional Office
Federal Building
11000 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90024


Let's hope this isn't a get off our back
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 25, 2011, 20:36:15 PM
NEW AGENT ORANGE CLINIC ! ! !
THE NATION?S FIRST AND ONLY CLINIC TO TEST, DIAGNOSE, AND TREAT
FOR
AGENT ORANGE DISEASES!!
If you have been exposed to Agent Orange, CALL THIS NUMBER to make an
appointment with North Texas Neurology Associates at the new ?AGENT ORANGE
CLINIC?:
(940) 322-1075
WILL WRITE V.A. LETTERS!! WILL CONFERENCE W/YOUR DOCTORS!!
EARLY DETECTION IS CRITICAL ! ! CALL TODAY!!
ASK FOR THE ?AGENT ORANGE CLINIC? WHEN MAKING APPT.
CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ! !
Danny Bartel, M.D., Neurologist
Texas State Board of Medical Examiners License #E6226
Board-Certified American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology #24-298 and American Board of
Clinical Neurophysiology
Agent Orange Clinic, North Texas Neurology Associates, Wichita Falls, Texas
?Medicare, Tricare, and most health insurance plans accepted?
The Order of the Silver Rose has made arrangements for discounts for food and lodging
while you are in Wichita Falls for your ?approximately three-day evaluation.?*
*The time it takes for exam and evaluation is dependent upon test results, which will vary
with each individual.
====ADDITIONAL INFO:
AGENT ORANGE CLINIC
Danny Bartel, M.D., Neurologist, one of the nation?s leading experts on the effects of
Agent Orange on the body, is opening the nation?s first Agent Orange Clinic in Wichita
Falls, Texas.
Dr. Bartel is highly experienced in screening, testing, and treating the various diseases
and conditions associated with exposure to Agent Orange and other chemicals used in
Vietnam. While he was a medical officer serving on active duty in the armed forces, Dr.
Bartel led medical studies in this area for the Department of Defense.
Many physicians, patients, and families notice the swift onset and rapid progression of
certain diseases that is peculiar to Vietnam veterans and is attributed to Agent Orange.
Appointments are on a first-come, first-served basis. Call (940) 322-1075, and make an
appointment for the ?Agent Orange Clinic.?
EARLY DETECTION IS CRITICAL. Call today!
Danny R. Bartel, M.D.
Neurologist
Experience:
1. Medical Officer, U.S. Air Force, Director of Studies of Effects of Agent Orange on
Servicemen, 1976-1982
2. 1982-Present: Neurologist, North Texas Neurology Associates, Wichita Falls, Texas
Education:
B.S., Physics, University of Texas at Arlington, 1973
M.D., University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, 1976
Internship, General Surgery, University of Texas Affiliated Hospitals, 1976-77
Residency, Internal Medicine, Baylor University Medical Center, Dallas, 1977-78
Neurology Fellowship, Indiana University Medical Center, Indianapolis, 1978-81
EEG/Evoked Potentials/EMG, Indiana University Medical Center, Indianapolis, 1981-82
Assistant Professor of Neurology, Indiana University, 1981-82
Medical Director, Epilepsy Clinic, Indiana University, 1981-82
Assistant Professor, Family Practice, University of Texas, Dallas, 1989-present
State Licensure: Texas State Board of Medical Examiners, June 1976, License #E6226
Board Certifications:
1. American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, November 1982, #24-298
2. American Board of Clinical Neurophysiology, May 1980
Professional Associations:
American Medical Association, Fellow of American Academy of Neurology, American
Association of Electromyography and Electrodiagnostics, American EEG Society, Texas
Medical Association, Wichita County Medical Society
A published principal clinical researcher (studies, medications, treatments too numerous
to list here), see Dr. Bartel?s website at www.ntneuro.com
Appointments:
Medical Director, North Texas Neurology Research, 1998-present
Co-Medical Director, Wichita Falls Rehabilitation Hospital, 1992-1999
Medical Director, Horizon Specialty Hospital, Wichita Falls, 1996-1999
Hospital Affiliations:
United Regional Health Care System, Wichita Falls, Texas
Kell West Regional Hospital, Co-Owner
Wichita Falls Rehabilitation Hospital
Horizon Specialty Hospital
Red River Hospital
Wichita Falls State Hospital
Sheppard Regional===========================================================Hospital Clinic, Sheppard AFB, Texas
Bowie Hospital, Bowie, Texas
Seymour Hospital, Seymour, Texas

JUST FOUND THIS, HOPE IT MIGHT HELP SOMEONE
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on February 26, 2011, 08:07:00 AM

Institute of Medicine Review on Possible Agent Orange Exposure

VA has asked the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine (IOM) to review the medical and scientific evidence regarding Blue Water Veterans? possible exposure to Agent Orange.

A report should be completed and available by summer 2011.

IOM is evaluating:

    * Historical background of the Vietnam War comparing Blue Water Navy, ?boots on ground? combat troops, and Brown Water Navy (includes inland waters).
    * Exposure levels among Blue Water Navy relative to ground troops in Vietnam or other contemporary ground troops deployed elsewhere (?Era? Veterans).
    * Comparative exposures for troops on the ground and troops aboard ships in the context of all possible routes of exposure, including herbicide ?overspray? and consumption of contaminated water and food.
    * A wide range of potential herbicide and dioxin exposure mechanisms including potential concentrating toxics in drinking water, air exposure possibly from drift from spraying, food, soil, skin, etc.
    * Comparative risks for long-term health outcomes comparing Vietnam Veteran ground troops, Blue Water Navy Veterans, and other ?Era? Veterans serving during the Vietnam War at other locations (assuming relative herbicide and dioxin exposures can be assessed). This will be based on previous IOM Veterans and Agent Orange study conclusions*? on long-term health outcomes from herbicide exposure.
    * Existing studies of Blue Water Navy Veterans for reported health outcomes.

Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 27, 2011, 09:13:47 AM
This may sound silly to you Vietnam Vets but in order to get motor whale boat and utility into water wouldn't you have to be anchored in water?  I'm just thinking of possible excuses the VA can come up with to deny A O Exposure.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 27, 2011, 09:19:47 AM
This may sound silly to you Vietnam Vets but in order to get motor whale boat and utility into water wouldn't you have to be anchored in water?  I'm just thinking of possible excuses the VA can come up with to deny A O Exposure.

No, the ship merely needs to be stopped or going very slow. I've seen them launch the boats while underway (at less than 5 knots or so).
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 27, 2011, 09:43:21 AM
Then, how do the men get in? And how do they get mail in the boats?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on February 27, 2011, 10:36:23 AM
Then, how do the men get in? And how do they get mail in the boats?

Rope ladders are one option - having men in the boat as it lowers (which is necessary anyway) is another. There are several ways to get men in the boat that does not require being anchored or even stopped.

It was also not unusual for mail to be delivered from another ship that was recently in port. These "high seas" transfers happened all the time, although not usually with boats.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 28, 2011, 18:40:41 PM
Sailors Adrift: The Lingering Tragedy of Agent Orange
Posted on June 27, 2010 by Veterans' Voices
Sailors suffer illness, disability as VA denies Agent Orange benefits to an entire class of Vietnam veterans
By Ken Olsen
(Copyright 2010 / All Rights Reserved)
Bombs are loaded onto planes aboard USS Bon Homme Richard off Vietnam in 1965. Sailors claim they, too, were exposed to Agent Orange. Photo by Kyoichi Sawada/Corbis
Robert Ross heard the low-flying plane heading his direction as he stood on the signal bridge of USS Vega on a late-summer day in 1966. Bathed in Southeast Asian sunshine, he was listening to Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons when he looked up just in time to get a face full of spray.
?The officer on deck was panicking,? Ross recalls. ?They hollered, ?Everybody inside! Agent Orange!? But it was too late.?
Forty-three years later, time is running out for Ross and tens of thousands of other sailors suffering from various cancers, Parkinson?s disease, diabetes and heart conditions caused by Agent Orange exposure during the Vietnam War. For nearly a decade, VA, acting on a
Bush administration directive and a punitive court decision, has severed their benefits or denied their claims. Under these new VA rules, so-called ?Blue Water? and ?Blue Sky? veterans are deemed not to have suffered any ill effects from the millions of gallons of toxic defoliant spread across the jungles during the war, regardless of any contact they may have had with it. The government?s rationale: they did not set foot on land or couldn?t meet VA?s stringent requirements for proof that they were exposed.
?VA acts as if there is an invisible shield at the shoreline,? says David Greenberg, a Navy veteran. ?In reality, Agent Orange blew out over the ocean. It also fell into the rivers and streams that fed out into the ocean. (And) because Navy ships distilled Agent Orange-tainted seawater for cooking, drinking and showering, it?s incomprehensible for VA to deny we were exposed.?
Denise Ross, whose husband is fighting for benefits, calls VA?s treatment of Agent Orange veterans disgraceful. ?They have lost everything. They have no way to support themselves. They are dying at an incredible rate. And VA treats them as if they are lying.?
Their last hope: legislation backed by The American Legion and other veterans groups that would restore the Agent Orange benefits Congress first authorized in 1991 for everyone who served in the Vietnam War ? on land, in the air or at sea.
Operation Ranch Hand
The U.S. military sprayed 20 million gallons of the deadly dioxin-based herbicide in Vietnam and Laos to strip the dense jungle that gave the enemy cover, to destroy their crops, and to clear ground for U.S. fire bases.Operation Ranch Hand ran from the early 1960s to the early 1970s.
VA still required proof of exposure, beginning in the 1970s when veterans first raised concerns about their own strange illnesses and birth defects among their children, says Bart Stichman, joint executive director of the National Veterans Legal Services Program, which has represented Agent Orange victims since the 1970s.
VA conceded that chloracne, skin lesions caused by chemical exposure, was connected to Agent Orange exposure in 1978. And in 1984, Congress ordered VA to assemble a committee of scientists to study whether the list of illnesses presumed to be caused by Agent Orange should be expanded.
A responded by handpicking scientists, some of whom had worked for chemical companies that manufactured Agent Orange, Stichman says. In essence, ?they denied everybody,? Stichman says.
By then, there were 800 studies on dioxin, the key toxin in Agent Orange. VA?s committee ?reviewed a couple dozen studies? in 10 months, Stichman says. His group sued, and a federal court in California ordered VA to start over.
Meanwhile, Dow, Monsanto and other Agent Orange manufacturers settled a class-action lawsuit with veterans. The $180 million settlement didn?t go far but was important in making the case for health problems the herbicide inflicted.
Congressional Reprieve
By 1990, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concluded that the 3 million veterans who served in Vietnam suffered a 50-percent-higher rate of non‑Hodgkin?s lymphoma than veterans who didn?t serve in Southeast Asia. VA then added that lone cancer to a short list of Agent Orange illnesses it would cover.
Realizing VA would never go far enough, Congress passed the Agent Orange Act of 1991. The legislation made it clear that anyone who served in the war ? whether on land or in Vietnam?s territorial waters ? was presumed to have been exposed and should receive VA benefits for illnesses caused by it. It also called for the National Academy of Sciences to determine which diseases were connected to Agent Orange. Over the next decade, soft-tissue sarcoma, lung, trachea and larynx cancer, multiple myleoma, Type 2 diabetes and other diseases were added to the list of Agent Orange conditions VA would cover.
Meanwhile, the Royal Australian Navy discovered that running dioxin-tainted seawater through its ships? distilling machines ? identical to equipment the U.S. Navy used to supply cooking, drinking and bathing water to ships in Vietnam ? magnified the dioxin?s strength,
Stichman says. A study by the Institute of Medicine, an arm of the National Academies of Science, later confirmed that.
The fortunes of Blue Water veterans changed after George W. Bush became president. In 2002, VA quietly rewrote its rules to require that all veterans prove they had physically set foot in Vietnam ? known as ?boots on ground? ? to qualify for Agent Orange benefits.
?They didn?t go through formal rule-making,? Stichman says. VA started denying new claims and cutting off Blue Water veterans who previously had been receiving benefits. This occurred even though a greater percentage of Vietnam War sailors developed non-Hodgkin?s lymphoma than those who served with ground forces.
?So a guy who gets benefits from 1996 to 2002 for trachea cancer found his benefits severed,? Stichman explains. The sole exception was veterans with non-Hodgkin?s lymphoma.
Haas? Legal Voyage
Jonathan L. Haas thought he had legal grounds to challenge VA?s sudden exclusion of some 500,000 Vietnam War sailors who became known as the Blue Water veterans. He remembered clouds of Agent Orange drifting from the shore and engulfing his ammunition tender, the Mount Katmai. Forty years later, he filed an Agent Orange claim for diabetes and kidney problems.
Haas fought all the way to the Supreme Court, with the help of the National Veterans Legal
Services Program and a friend-of-the-court brief from The American Legion. He lost. And when the high court refused to hear Haas v. Nicholson in early 2009, it effectively affirmed VA?s right to rewrite the rules and prevent Blue Water veterans from receiving Agent Orange benefits.
The Bush administration also pushed for legislation prohibiting Blue Water veterans from qualifying for presumptive Agent Orange exposure. The effort failed. But the Haas decision prevented tens of thousands of sick and disabled Blue Water veterans from getting VA benefits, including Thomas J. Laliberte, a naval photographer who serviced aerial reconnaissance cameras on the A‑5 Vigilantes that flew from USS Constellation in the Gulf of Tonkin.
The airplanes flew in areas recently sprayed with Agent Orange and periodically landed in Vietnam, accumulating dioxin residue, Laliberte says. He routinely worked on the airplane cameras and camera pods after these missions.
A computer programmer, truck driver and pressman since leaving the service, Laliberte says he was never sick until he was overcome with fatigue in August 2006. He couldn?t keep up at work and was laid off from his printing-plant job. Two weeks later, Laliberte was hospitalized with multiple myeloma. His kidney failure was so profound that he was ?within days of dying,? Laliberte says.
His wife divorced him five months later. Laliberte was left only with Social Security disability benefits and temporarily moved in with a friend. VA has denied his Agent Orange-exposure claim, and he?s still living in his friend?s spare room.
?I feel abandoned,? Laliberte says, his voice hoarse from the steroids he takes to calm the side effects of chemotherapy. ?I know I was there. I know I was exposed. And I feel that way not only for myself, but for the thousands of veterans who need help but can?t get the health care they need.?
Three years ago, Laliberte joined the newly formed Veterans Association of Sailors of the Vietnam War and now serves as its president. Together with The American Legion and other veteran groups, the VASVW is pushing legislation to restore veterans? Agent Orange benefits.
Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, stressed urgency before hearings he called in May. ?Congress? original intent was to provide these veterans with benefits based on their exposure to Agent Orange and other deadly herbicides ? regardless of arbitrary geographic line-drawing,? he wrote in a letter to his colleagues.
VA declined to address specific issues raised by veterans in this article. But in a statement prepared for The American Legion Magazine, VA noted it has proposed adding hairy cell leukemia, Parkinson?s disease and ischemic heart disease to the list of illnesses presumed to be connected to Agent Orange exposure, and ?is committed to pursuing all medical research efforts that improve our understanding of diseases that could be presumptively service-connected.?
Ross? Dying Wish. Nevada veteran Robert Ross wonders if he?ll outlive the VA appeals process. He developed blistering sores on his back in the 1970s and diabetes in 1995. He suffered heart failure in 2001, but is not a transplant candidate because of kidney problems. He had thyroid cancer, suffers from neuropathy, and fights an indigestion problem. Two years ago, doctors likened his life expectancy to that of a terminal-cancer patient.
Ross filed a claim with the Reno, Nev., VA in 2008. He was denied as a result of the Haas ruling. He cannot prove he took the face full of spray that late-summer day in 1966. He cannot prove he was close enough to the shore to see people?s faces. He cannot prove his ship was tied to a dock on several trips into Da Nang Harbor to re-supply U.S. ships.
?People are under the impression that these men have access to proof of where they were all of the time, of incidents that occurred while they were on ship, and every location of their ship,? Denise Ross says. ?It was wartime. A lot of that information wasn?t put in the ship?s log or written down.?
Ross filed a notice of disagreement with the Reno VA in April 2009. ?We provided them the doctor?s letter that said my husband has a year to live,? Denise says. ?I begged them. I said, ?My husband is dying. Can?t you just deny his claim so we can file an appeal?? We?re concerned about our son, who has asthma and other medical issues.?
That denial finally came this spring, a year after the Rosses? urgent plea. They will appeal this summer. The case will drag on perhaps another year ? a year Ross might not have.
The Rosses, like Laliberte, are putting their hope in the legislation.
?Every senator and member of Congress has the responsibility to step in immediately,? Denise says. ?They can?t put a stop to the suffering. But they can restore the benefits that have been denied these men. I want it made right not just for my husband, but for everyone.?
This story appeared in the July issue of The American Legion Magazine.

How much more evidence does the VA need???????????????
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on February 28, 2011, 18:43:57 PM
Sorry, I didn't put those sad faces at the bottom, they just appeared.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 03, 2011, 13:48:18 PM
Mark D how many other items have you written I just xtime line and haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. Looks kind of complicated tho,so don't be surprised if I have my questions. What other articles have you written about the USS King?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on March 03, 2011, 16:06:31 PM
Mark D how many other items have you written I just xtime line and haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. Looks kind of complicated tho,so don't be surprised if I have my questions. What other articles have you written about the USS King?

Chuck White (the webmaster) and I have written and compiled many things over the years. Here's where you can find everything:

http://www.uss-king.com/about.shtml

http://uss-king.com/KingWiki/doku.php

http://uss-king.com/smf/index.php/board,13.0.html

http://uss-king.com/smf/index.php/board,18.0.html

http://uss-king.com/smf/index.php/board,16.0.html

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like!
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 03, 2011, 18:55:35 PM
Mark or Chuck when and why did the USS King receive the Bronze Star?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on March 03, 2011, 19:05:28 PM
Mark or Chuck when and why did the USS King receive the Bronze Star?

The King was never awarded the Bronze Star - it's a personal award, not a unit award:

The Bronze Star Medal (or BSM) is a United States Armed Forces individual military decoration that may be awarded for bravery, acts of merit, or meritorious service.

The Valor device (or "V device") is authorized by all services and identifies the award as resulting from an act of combat heroism (as in the case of the Army and Air Force) or signifying that the medal was earned in combat (as in the case of the Navy), thus distinguishing it from meritorious achievement awards.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 03, 2011, 19:31:59 PM
How do I find out how Ron was award his medal? Sorry but I think I already asked this but I can't find it again. Thanks for being patient with me.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on March 03, 2011, 19:41:06 PM
There may be reference to it on his DD214, but it would probably lack details (although it should have the award date). There may have been a certificate accompanying it, but I imagine you would have seen it among his stuff.

I'm not really sure how to find out. Contacting someone who was aboard at the same time might help.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 04, 2011, 17:59:47 PM
Mark, Have you heard Han Kim Lake in Vietnam? There an article saying how they're trying to save a giant sea turtle because it's suppose to be sacred to the Hanoi area. Would it be possible for AO to be in the water.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 04, 2011, 18:53:15 PM
Mark sorry that was Hoan Kiem Lake.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 07, 2011, 18:57:56 PM
Well its official I received my 1st do nothing, kiss off letter from Dianne Feinstein with her" I firmly believe that legislation and other that assist efforts those who have served our country with honor, courage and distinction deserves serious consideration''. :(  She should be THANK GOD I firmly believe serving MY Country without her legislative powers.
 :P ON feinstein.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 08, 2011, 20:59:20 PM
Since Ron can't remember when or why he received his Bronze Star I wrote to customer service from the Dept. of VA and was told to contact and complete a SF 180:
Navy Personnel Command
Liaison Office Room 5409
9700 age Ave.
St. Luis, Mo. 63132-5100
I'll let you knowhow this works out.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 09, 2011, 14:16:19 PM
If you served in the Armed Forces from   9/2/45 till  12/26/01 you can contact the Cold War Certificate Website and receive information on how to obtain it
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 10, 2011, 10:31:09 AM
Can anyone tell what do you need to receive a Combat Award Ribbon?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: Mark D on March 10, 2011, 14:00:27 PM
Can anyone tell what do you need to receive a Combat Award Ribbon?

The Combat Action Ribbon (CAR) is a personal military decoration of the United States Navy, United States Marine Corps, and United States Coast Guard which is awarded to those who, in any grade including and below that of a Captain in the Navy and Coast Guard (or Colonel in the Marine Corps), have actively participated in ground or surface combat.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 10, 2011, 18:32:06 PM
I want to make sure everyone who was on the USS King when Ron was is to earn one? I saw where CAR was issued on Nov.22, 1972 and I'm not exactly sure when Ron was on-board for some reason I think it's 28th,till be entitled for it?
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 10, 2011, 20:20:35 PM
I know it's sounds like I'm not listening, but in all honesty the VA and I don't agree and I want to make sure I have a strong defense should the VA say well Ron wasn't on-board that day he came the next day. I didn't know AO was for only the day it states, I thought it was a permanent status and was always to be that way. Hope I don't offend just wanting to make everything is clear.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 20, 2011, 13:43:31 PM
According to BWN on 3/4/11 it updated the ship list and of course the USS King wasn't on it, but now I believe the USS King is considered "temporary duty" .I don't understand how this affects us Kingmen, but hopefully it's in the right step.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: kayo1952 on March 20, 2011, 19:30:49 PM
the last time they updated the list was Jan 24 2011
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 23, 2011, 14:22:15 PM
Sorry for my wording, I didn't mean to misled anyone the main thing is at least now we know we would be "temporary duty", if anything happens and we do get on the "PRESUMPTION LIST.
Title: Re: Da Nang
Post by: grampron on March 23, 2011, 18:59:10 PM
Ron just got some good news the VA gave him 70% PTSD, which amounted to 10% disability. The dated 4/1/10,how do we get it back dated to when we filed 10 yrs. ago? Still haven't heard from Senator Boxer or anyone else in the gov. on the USS King status.